Discussing my book, Make Yourself a Little Bit Famous on the BBC

Transcript: Discussing my book, Make Yourself a Little Bit Famous on BBC Radio Leeds

00:00 From Secretary to Senior Producer: A BBC Journey

Stephanie (00:00)

Have you ever thought to yourself, do you know what? I'd like to be just a little bit famous, just a little bit. Whereas I guess the job that I do, it's a bit of a byproduct, but I've never even seen myself as anything like that, because I've loved radio since I was little. But former BBC correspondent Penny Hassam started a illustrious career in the BBC video sales. So you were flogging videos.

P.H.

I forgot about that.

Yes. You were flogging Noddy tapes. No, I was the secretary to the department that flogged Noddy, Only Fools and Horses. To BBC Worldwide? To BBC Worldwide. Wow, okay. And I was in the overseas video department, so I wasn't even in the main bit. I started off my career at the BBC in such a peripheral, you know, completely far away from where I actually ended up, which was on live television 20 years later. But yes, I was a secretary when I first started. I worked my way to the top.

Stephanie.

A lot of people knock the BBC.

And they do. Do you know what? But it is great for careers because you can start and it lets you. There is a big career path in the BBC, isn't there? So if you have dreams of working in the BBC, you can start as a secretary somewhere.

Penny.

enthusiasm, have common sense, show willing, smile, be prepared to do stuff that other people wouldn't do like make tea, print scripts.

Stephanie.

That's the key. always say when people come in and work experience and stuff and, you know, they're asking for advice.

or if I do public speaking and people ask advice about radio and stuff, make tea. Because a cup of tea opens up a conversation, doesn't it? Make tea and smile.

Penny.

I had a smile policy at the BBC, actually. I was a senior producer on a Radio 4 program called Money Box, it all about personal finance. Didn't understand a word of it, but anyway, I managed somehow to limp through that. And I used to walk through the department that made Panorama. Everyone was very serious.

As very, as you can imagine, Television centre. Television centre, White City, very serious. Here's me from Manchester. Hiya. And I thought one year's day, probably a bit like this time of the year, going back to work, I thought, what's going to make a difference? I can't, I was a bit shy. I didn't want to do networking. I didn't really know how to approach people and say, hi, I work in news. I know about finance. Is there any way I can get a job on telly or anything like that? Nothing like that.

Had no confidence really in that way. And I thought, I know how to smile. I'm going to adopt a smile policy. And you know, it frightened the life out of these panorama people. I'd walk through them being at the open plan office, go, morning, hi. And they'd be like, oh my God, who's that friendly northerner?

Stephanie.

I do that. When I first started work here, say hello to everyone. It doesn't matter. Because to me, we're all fighting for the same thing. The people who clean these studios are as important as I am. We are all fighting for the greater good.

02:54 The Art of Making Yourself a Little Bit Famous

Yeah. And I've always thought that, regardless. It's a to work It's an honor and a privilege to just be behind, be on stage, behind a live microphone or just, it's just, it's an honor. Yeah.

Stephanie.

So you should serve your audience. Absolutely. And look after the people who you work with. Too Brilliant. I like that. Well done, Stephanie. Well done. Yeah. So this book, what made, cause it's not, it's not the world's biggest book, it? And I think.

No, and I say pamphlet. Is that what you're saying? is it? 190? Is it 192?

Penny.

It's 40,000 words. Yeah. And a lot of business books are double that 80,000. This is exactly what I And the trend, I think, is heading towards, you want to read something on a train ride. You want to get on a plane, buy a book and read it and finish it by the time you get there. And you want easy to understand, accessible, downloadable, instantly usable tips, techniques, ideas, rather than it being a ponderous concept, know, ideology or intellectual sort of theories and all the rest of it.

So I wanted a book that, I mean, the title, Make Yourself a Little Bit Famous. I could have called it How to Raise Your Profile and Get Known for What You Do, How to, you know, increase your visibility, all that kind of stuff.

But I thought, no, no, it's boring. So I speak about this stuff. I started off speaking about going on TV and radio because that was my background.

And actually it dawned on me that a lot of people who come on air maybe wait for that opportunity. They're my God, the mighty BBC has rung me. It's amazing. But obviously with the advent of social media and using smartphone video and writing blogs, you are your own mini publisher.

lIf you are a business owner, if you are a freelancer, if you are an employee who's ambitious for their career, you've got all these free to use opportunities.

you should make more of them. So I started speaking about that. And it's one of those phrases that I really struggled to find my phrase. And it was in anger really that it came out of my mouth. One of those. was on the phone to a friend. She was going, well, you you're doing all this speaking and stuff, but you haven't got a very sexy title. And I went, I know, I'm just calling it something like the expert advantage or get out there more. You know, it's all a bit dull and dry. And she said, what is it you're trying to help people do?

I said, for goodness sake, I'm just trying to help people just make themselves a little bit famous. And we both went quiet and went, ooh, that's the one.

And whenever I say it to people, they smile and go, yeah, because no one wants to be massively famous. But equally, you can't be a best kept secret and do well, can you?

Stephanie.

No, I think it's and also it's about having just the right amount of profile, isn't it? Yeah. Too much. You can be too.

people's faces to it. It's like those people on Facebook that update their statuses constantly. I know, what did I have for lunch? Yeah, exactly. You end up muting them, don't you? But if you just do the right amount, you've just got the right amount of profile, people have a little bit of intrigue.

Penny.

In the right way. So you've got a show on a Saturday night on another radio station. Yeah. It's a BBC station. It's in the north, we can say it. We're grown ups. Manchester. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's about vinyl.

06:09 Leveraging Social Media for Personal Branding

records, isn't it? So you're expert in this field. You're not going, look at me, come to me, I've got a show. You're going, right, we've got some vinyl, we've got some interest here, we've some meat, you've got an angle. And I think that's what puts people off getting on social media or speaking about what they do is because they see it as being a bit show-offy. Whereas my book, Make Yourself a Little Bit Famous, tries to help you see how you can be useful and showcase your knowledge and experience.

in a little bit of an expert way. Because I think you're not just tweeting about your lunch.

Stephanie.

Exactly. And I think it's just it's it's putting those things out there, isn't it? That make people it's I've always tried to use the someone told me this many, many years ago when I first started less is always more. more about less. Exactly. Don't confuse people. Don't give them too much. It's just one or two ideas. But expand on that. We need quite a lot of confidence to be able to do that.

So I help people, I help business owners, I help employees and leaders, that sort of thing, raise their profile. And I start by asking them to think about their pet subjects. So what's their, not, what's your, when you ask people, what's your expertise? Most people go, well, I'm not an expert. Cause they're not, they're humble. They're not like braggarts and going, yes, I'm the world leading expert in. They are actually going, what do I know? Well, what are you passionate about? What have you got experience in? What do you want to be known for?

And mostly people have two or three areas. And then I say, find where those areas are going to be most useful to your customers or potential candidates, maybe, or investors or audiences or who do you want to get in front of and where's that really good fit going to be? And then you're away, really, you're off. becomes your brand, doesn't it?

Stephanie.

Yeah. And once you've got your brand out, because every single one of us, regardless, you know,

You may own a nail salon, you may own a hairdresser's, you might be a guy with a van who goes around and just, you know, because everyone needs a man with a van. Yeah. But you're a brand.

Penny.

Yes. And if you can show that you understand your customers pain through your expertise, then you're more likely to get more people attracted to you and your product or your service or your career and what you can do for the organization you work for.

all of this came out of a place where I was really struggling as an employee at the BBC and I'd had an appraisal years ago Stephanie where the line manager had said your career is like pie and it's in the book it's PIE and he drew on his flip chart a circle a pie chart and put PIE in it.

"P" 25 % performance don't spend too much time on your performance you've got that covered. "I"

The importance of authenticity in communication

image, 25 % of your effort work on your image. What's it going to be? And then the "E", well, what was E for? I was like, Oh my God, what else is there? Exposure. Getting exposure for your performance and your image. Now I wasn't very good at that. showed me the idea of it, but annoyingly, hadn't given me any of the tools. And it came out of a book. He didn't even tell me the title of the book it had come from, written in the 1980s. And I

I just struggled, I was frustrated because at the time, 15 years ago, what did you do to get exposure? There was no social media, there was no networking and going up to the boss and going, hi, I'm Penny, Penny Haslam, I work on this program, I've done a great job, that's it. You're not sales people, you've got numbers to show off and like, so it felt like a bit elevator pitchy and a bit showoffy.

But now you've got no excuse, have you? You've got a great following on Instagram and social media, haven't you, yourself?

Stephanie.

Try and bother them a little bit. But I try not to bother people too much, but I also try and use social media in a positive way as well. I do this thing on a Saturday night, this is me talking about myself now, but I do this thing called Kitchen Belters where I DJ in my kitchen on a Saturday night between six and seven and I play 90s dance classics. And I've hit a demographic which is people in their

30s to 50s, used to go out clubbing in the 90s, but they're making tea, the kids are running around and doing shout outs for kids and all that, it's just me and my kitchen. You need a club night.

Stephanie.

That's the next thing, that's the next thing, but it's kind of quite nice actually not doing it in a club because people are not falling over you and spilling gin and tonics all no, this is

Pennny.

that starts at eight o'clock and finishes at 10.30, to back in time for the babysitter. Well that's the idea isn't it, probably take it somewhere like that.

Stephanie.

But I think people is to use, is using social media in a different way because as you just mentioned 15 years ago, there was no social media, there was no YouTube. Whereas children these days, children are making themselves a little bit famous. it's just, you know, making little videos about their Lego Lego connections, collections, or if it's something to do with Fortnite or something like that.

Penny.

Or just speaking really fluently to the camera, the lens in their phones.

And the phone camera is incredibly useful. I help people work out how to do that well without feeling like an idiot or feeling too exposed. So then they can utilize the popularity of video. So they're not doing it in a rubbishy way that goes on for seven minutes and they're in their car, less is more. Little bites, little bits of content. It's all about content. And what we had before was advertising, marketing, PR, all of which was expensive.

much of which was inauthentic. And of course we've got an issue now with customers and people who are listeners, everyone who we interact with, with trust and establishing yourself as a personality or a figurehead or somebody who is genuine and interesting and has useful stuff to share with the world. Then you're off to a better start than throwing a load of money at a PR campaign.

Celebrating achievements and positivity

that's going to get you a few bits. PR and marketing has its place. I'm not knocking it at all, but this is like another level for individuals to make themselves a little bit famous. People buy people, don't they?

Stephanie.

And this is the first book I've seen on something like this. the amazing Steph McGovern has given a great quote. I employed her. Really? Many years ago, yeah, when I was on Moneybox, I met her and she was such a bright spark. She's incredible. She's left BBC Breakfast now. She's no longer the business presenter there.

I know, we can't say it's going to be brilliant, but it is because there are other And it's been made and it's been posted here in Leeds as well. So, which is great.

Penny.

She's endorsed the book and said it is a great thing for your career and your business, hasn't she? Yeah, she says quite simply the best advice to help you attract attention for your business or career. McGovern.

Stephanie.

I've hopefully done it in a really funny way. So there's loads of funny stories in there and it's quite self-deprecating because I'm that way inclined. I'm from the North, you know, we are, aren't we?

And it's, it's trucks along in a way that maybe it's not stuffy or corporate sounding. So it's a bit of a laugh and also hopefully puts a pin in all the nervousness around speaking on stages or taking part in a panel discussion or chairing one or going on TV and radio and having a chat with lovely people like yourselves and just saying, it's not combative. It's not to be feared. Let's all just have a bit of a laugh. And also you've got to start somewhere.

No one saw Steve Jobs do his first talk, did they? No, they didn't. But now probably had a neck rash and a bit of a twitch, you know, and read from his script. You know, we didn't see that. All we see is the amazingness of the finished product. And we compare our own internal sort of experience of stuff with that and go, I could never be like that. So hopefully this book helps cover that shortfall, like distance.

Stephanie.

What was it like when it first arrived the box and you opened it up? This is your first book.

And you opened it up and all the books are there, because this is your baby, isn't it? And you get to release it to the world.

Penny.

It was incredible. But I have to say there's something, sometimes you're busy and sometimes big things in your life you don't tend to notice as much. And I think when I saw somebody on Twitter go, oh my gosh, this is a lifetime achievement, Penny. I was like, haha, actually it is. But I'd been too busy and I hadn't really seen it like that because I've been so involved.

But you know what, there's a trend for box opening videos on social media apparently. There is actually, I've seen them. So I opened my box of books that arrived at my house in all innocence just going, right, let's video this. My 14 year old daughter videoed it. It's not a very good video. I've got a plant coming out of the top of my head. There's a bookshelf behind me. It's all a bit dodgy. I should have set it a bit better. Anyway, I go, my gosh, my book. And I sniffed it. The smell, I just go on sniff it.

that is good. That's quite unique, isn't it? So, yeah. So that video got something like 15, 16 thousand views. It's a rubbish video. I despair of the But you know what?

Stephanie.

Having that plant poking out the side of your head, that's authenticity. And I think that's what people look for in videos these days, isn't it? They want something that's authentic. and joyful. Yeah, joyful because we all want, gosh, in the world that we're living today, we want some positivity. Yes.

Penny.

We need some human fun and people who are just willing to just have a bit of a laugh. I worked with an employment lawyer in Leeds who set upon his own, he'd left a big corporate faceless organization, law firm, set upon his own. And he said, I don't want to be like the rest. And I want to work with people who are like me. They're fun, a bit left field, like having a laugh and doing things differently, can trust me. And so we set him up with how to do videos on social media.

And he is just has a lot of fun with it and he does daft skits, which is not like an employment lawyer should be.

Stephanie.

No, but he's turned it on its head. And I think that's what I've always tried to do with my career. Just turn it on its head a little bit, not try and do the norm. And with this show, you know, speaking to yourself, it's I want this show to be like three hours off from the real world, but we deal with real issues as well.

So it's not all heavy.

Stephanie.

You are very much yourself, Stephanie. I get the feeling anyway, which is what you have to be on air. It's very difficult though when you move from maybe a corporate organization into setting up on your own where you're not speaking and being fluent every day in your own voice. I know when I first left the BBC and of course I was doing national BBC news, business news. I remember you. Do you? Yeah, course do. A long thick hair, it's a hot under the lights.

But I used to, when I first started talking about my stuff, I was ever so buttoned down, buttoned up, whatever the phrase is. Almost institutionalized. Yes. And I didn't know my own voice. And it wasn't until I stepped into the sort of space of not really giving one for all, know, oh, it. A bit like the employment lawyer, a bit like yourself, know, sod it. And people are drawn to that or they're not. And that's fine, isn't it?

Stephanie.

But I think people want more of that in 2020. I think they need it in 2019 then. More of that in 2020. They want authenticity. And this is why this book is brilliant.

Penny.

And we need it from our leaders. Yeah. And we need it from our politicians and we need it from businesses and brands and stuff that perhaps let us down in the past. People need to know that we are looking at them and we need to trust them in a really good, positive way. So show us the show us the way, make yourself a little bit famous. the book and it's available now from Penny Haslam. Thank you so much.